Martin Carr chats with screenwriter Chris Matheson…
Chris Matheson has carved his own niche into the cultural sub-conscious, as one part of the writing team behind Bill and Ted. Time travelling San Dimas teenagers, who audiences have watched grow up over almost thirty years. Their iconic status, which has recently been reaffirmed with Bill and Ted: Face the Music, will ensure that their legacy continues to endure for some time to come. Chris recently took time out to talk Martin Carr about their enduring appeal, as well as looking back on key moments in their creation.
Where did the inspiration for Bill and Ted come from?
Ed (Solomon) and I did some improv with friends back in 1983. We didn’t do it for an audience but just for fun, because we wanted to make comedy. We were just playing with characters and ideas, one of which spawned these two teenage boys who knew nothing about history, probably studying for a test. One of us said ‘how’s it going Bill?’ and the other said ‘how’s it going Ted?’ then just started talking about history and world affairs, knowing nothing, which meant everything was either excellent or bogus.
We just liked them and they were really fun to play from the get go. So much so that after the improv finished, we went out to a twenty-four-hour coffee shop and carried on talking about them. Making up back stories, creating their families and being those characters. By the end of that first night Bill and Ted existed for us.
Music plays an integral role in the trilogy; how did that manifest itself during the writing process?
At what point we decided that music was their thing and something they wanted do must have been early on. For us they were teenage boys who weren’t into sports, but into music, which meant they would want to make it. Once that became their dream and we knew they were passionate about it, that led us all sorts of places and became quite integral.
George Carlin always felt like an interesting choice for Rufus, how did that piece of casting come about?
Rufus was the last part to be cast. There were a bunch of ideas floated in terms of casting and we were well into production on Excellent Adventure, but no decisions had been made. When Ed and I first wrote the script, we had the lead singer of Van Halen, David Lee Roth in mind. Purely because we thought he would be funny and it was just a funny idea. At a certain point Ringo (Starr) was discussed, which I was really excited about, being a humungous Beatles fan. I remember hearing Sean Connery’s name being mentioned, alongside a number of other actors that were discussed. I believe George Carlin had just made a movie with Innerscope called Outrageous Fortune starring Bette Midler, which had gone well. He had a relationship with our producers Scott Kroopf and Robert Cort, so really late on George joined the cast. Now of course, it’s really hard to imagine anyone else playing the role because he brought so much to the table.
What was the eureka moment for yourself and Ed, which made it feel like a good time to revisit these characters?
I don’t know if there was a eureka moment. The whole Bill and Ted thing was dormant and we pretty much thought it was over in 1991 with Bogus Journey. In terms of that second film, it performed alright and people liked it, but not to the extent that talk turned naturally towards making a third one. I even remember at the premiere of Bogus Journey floating the idea with Alex (Winter) and Keanu (Reeves), but at that point they weren’t interested. Which meant for about fifteen years myself and Ed didn’t really talk about it at all.
Then somewhere around 2007 we just started wondering what Bill and Ted would be like now and realised there was another story to tell. Of course, before we really began getting into it, we talked to Alex and Keanu, in terms of what they thought about getting involved. Basically, their decision was dependent on the quality of our idea, so we went from there and really started digging into it.
From the beginning it became clear that Bill and Ted had to have failed and not come up with that song. If they had been successful, we had nowhere to go and the idea didn’t seem funny to us. The fact that they had been beating their heads against a wall for decades seemed like a good opening. Keanu and Alex got that and we ran with it.
To what extent do you think Bill and Ted’s emotional naivety has contributed to their universal appeal?
In the first movie they do have a naivety about them and perhaps in the second one too, countered of course by evil robot versions who are very savvy. Yet in Face The Music I don’t perceive them as naïve anymore. At that point I think they know what the world is like and how hard things are. Yet they do possess a natural buoyancy to them, even though Ted’s has been very damaged by now.
How important was it to offer Bill and Ted a sense of closure in Face the Music?
That mattered to us a lot and we wanted them to have an emotional journey. We wanted them to learn things about their wives and children and themselves. One of the key lines early on for me is when Ted says ‘I’m tired dude’. They are worn out and the journey becomes about going from that, to this moment of happiness at the end. A moment which their daughters are chief architects of, but also an event that would be impossible without their involvement. That really mattered to us because we wanted our guys to be happy in the end.
To what extent would you say time travel is used to educate audiences throughout the trilogy?
We never had it in mind that we were ever going to educate anybody, because we didn’t know enough to do that. Number one, we would have needed a better understanding of the nature of time travel, which we don’t because we write comedy not science fiction. Then number two, we would need a much better understanding of history, which we also don’t. So, to the degree that that actually occurred I think that’s a good thing, but it was never conscious on our part.
Tonally these films promote universal acceptance and celebrate creative expression. From your perspective as the writer, how much did the characters contribute to that?
We understood pretty early on about Bill and Ted that they liked everybody. They had a very positive energy and to me at least, felt like some kind of strange alter ego. Purely because this is not me, while anyone who has ever known me will tell you that. However, they are like that, so it was very enjoyable to enter into that mindset. These guys are really open to everything that everybody has to bring. They pretty much think that everything that anybody brings is excellent ultimately.
They are into music and creativity while they daughters Billie and Thea have a really deep knowledge of music, which is what we were trying to convey. They genuinely know everything about the subject and love it all. What Billie and Thea are trying to do at the end is bring all those voices together, which is a really hard thing to do on film.
If someone described Bill and Ted as a feel-good film, do you consider that an accurate summation or does it have more to offer?
There is nothing wrong with a feel-good film, because there is a lot to feel bad about. So, if anything makes anyone feel better, I am in favour of that. However, in my opinion there are darker more personal themes that go through all three of these movies. Themes which perhaps bring out a different quality in each film.
In the first film these characters are alone and don’t have maternal figures. Ed and I never really even talked about it at the time, but neither one has a mother which is never explained. That in itself must have had a psychological impact, but it turns out their fathers are also really unpleasant people. Captain Logan is just flat out mean, while Bill’s dad kicks him out of his bedroom to have sex with Missy. Then in the second movie there is a lot of self-hatred, because they literally kill themselves and go to Hell. Everybody in the Bill and Ted world goes to Hell, for reasons which even Ed and I don’t really understand.
Then finally Face the Music turns out to be about failure and mortality, which again is something we really talked about. Purely because these films are supposed to be silly, playful and feel good movies, yet all those things are going on within them.
If you had to pick a favourite from the three, which would it be and why?
Personally, I find the second one the funniest because it is so strange. There is an unpredictability to it and Bogus Journey feels almost reckless at times, in the comedic choices that get made. There are huge amounts of darkness in it and yet this film is also simultaneously ridiculous. I think that second act in Bogus Journey where they basically get killed, become ghosts and Melvin Death amongst other things is excellent. Comedically for me, that is the strongest thing we wrote but then again, Face the Music kind goes off the rails towards the end. A lot of people like Station the Martian and I don’t mind him, but it is a weird out of left field kind of thing that we didn’t really fully integrate into the movie.
Face the Music is the deepest of the three and I really like it, because we got these guys properly in touch with their emotions. For me I love the moment with their wives in the phone booth when they look at them and say ‘I love you’. Purely because Ron Burgundy and Derek Zoolander wouldn’t do that. Groucho Marx wouldn’t look at a woman sincerely with no hint of punchline and say those words. By the way, all those things I just listed are amongst my favourite comedies.
Which I guess leaves the first one, which is probably a favourite for most people but would be number three amongst those for me. Even though it is probably the best one in terms of working as a movie.
Describe for me your perfect Sunday afternoon.
It would be a long hike in a beautiful place with my wife and children. We would pack some food and hike a long way over woodland, through creek beds and stop to eat. Then come back, drink coffee, laugh and hang out. That would be pretty much a perfect Sunday afternoon.
Many thanks to Chris Matheson for taking the time for this interview.
Bill and Ted Face the Music is out now on 4K, Blu-ray and DVD as well as an HMV Three Film Collection.